Chanukah 8 Days From: Micha Berger Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 13:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Length of Succos Succos, like Pesach (Passover), is seven days long. The eighth day is Rabbinic, an is to remind those of us who live in the diasporah of the days when the calendar was not fixed. What throws people off is that it is immediately followed by a different holiday, Shmini Atzeres. SA has a radically different Mussaf (Additional) offering, and is not called Succos in liturgy. So, I assume the questioner would want to know why Succos and Pesach are seven days long. I don't know. But I do have two tangents I wanted to mention. Atzeres is a day for G-d and the Jewish people to treasure our relationship before the end of the holiday season. In Mishnaic/Talmudic literature, "Atzeres" refers to Shavuos, implying that it serves a parallel role for Pesach as SA does for Succos. It is interesting to look at why Shavuos needs the 7 weeks of post-Pesach preperation from which it gets its name, but SA doesn't. Perhaps this has to do with the difference between the two seasons. Pesach celebrates the relationship between us and G-d, but starts with what He does for us, and what this demands out of us in return. Succos, coming after Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, focusses more on earned reward, obeying G-d, and how He responds to us. Therefore, Pesach is supposed to lead to preperation for Shavuos, whereas Succos is supposed to come AFTER the preperation. (It is interesting to note that "teshuvah season", from Ellul 1 to erev Yom Kippur is also 49 days.) The other tangent is that according to the book of Maccabbees, the first Channukah was originally seen as an oportunity to congregate at the Temple in lieu of the just-missed Succos-Shmini Atzeres. Why is Channukah is 8 days long? The famous miracle of oil burning for 8 days was only miraculous for 7 of those days. There was enough oil to burn for the first day through natural means. Thousands (literally!) of answers have been offered. When I was in 6th grade, my Rebbe had a small book that was entirely a collection of answers to this question. Now you have another reason. To match the eight days that pilgrims go to the Temple for in Tishrei. From: epaymar@... Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 00:30:26 GMT Subject: The Hanukah Story In TF 100 Micha Berger wrote: The other tangent is that according to the book of Maccabbees, the first Channukah was originally seen as an oportunity to congregate at the Temple in lieu of the just-missed Succos-Shmini Atzeres. Why is Channukah is 8 days long? The famous miracle of oil burning for 8 days was only miraculous for 7 of those days. There was enough oil to burn for the first day through natural means. Most of us grew up on the story of the miraculous oil. But was it true? I am told that not only is there no mention of the miracle in the Book of Maccabbees, but there is mention at all of the miracle until the great Rabbinic period! I was told that the Rabbis, as a figurative "poke in the eye" to the, by then despised, Hosmonean dynasty made up the miracle to take the glory of the great military triumphs away from Mattathias' clan and give it to G-d. Does anyone have any historical clarifications? From: Yaakov Menken Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 01:23:03 -0500 Subject: Re: The Hanukah Story epaymar@... wrote: Most of us grew up on the story of the miraculous oil. But was it true? I am told that not only is there no mention of the miracle in the Book of Maccabees, but there is mention at all of the miracle until the great Rabbinic period! I was told that the Rabbis, as a figurative "poke in the eye" to the, by then despised, Hosmonean dynasty made up the miracle to take the glory of the great military triumphs away from Mattathias' clan and give it to Gd. One can speculate pretty much at will about such things, because we do not have much in the way of written records. To say that it is not mentioned in the Book of Maccabees is essentially synonymous with saying it does not appear until the Rabbinic period (the Mishna)... because with the exception of Josephus (who apparently relied on Maccabees), what other written records do we have? On the other hand, one wonders how "the Rabbis" would pass off this story to one of the most cynical groups known to man (the Jewish people). The Mishna refers explicitely to a Chanukah light as something kept outside, a unique custom which requires a good basis. This custom is also mentioned in the Jerusalem Talmud, and the full story of the miracle is spelled out in the Babylonian. In none of these (despite the nature of the Mishna and Talmud as books filled with arguments) do we find any dissenting voice. The claim that Chanukah originally commemorated a military victory is very problematic: according to Maccabees and Josephus, the date we celebrate Chanukah is hardly appropriate as a military celebration, for the victory at that time was far from complete. Parts of the country - even parts of Jerusalem itself - remained in enemy hands, and four of Matisyahu's five sons (including Yehudah, Judah the Maccabee) were killed during the succeeding years as the war continued. Shimon, the last surviving son, finally freed Israel 24 years later, and yet no holiday was declared at that point. [Chanukah, by Rabbi Hersh Goldwurm] Were it merely a military victory, the logical solution would have been for the Rabbis to ignore it - rather than canonize it on a different day and conspire to fabricate a truly far-fetched miracle in order to explain the shift. I'm biased, of course, but I don't think it holds up. YM From: David Clinton Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:09:00 -0640 Subject: RE: the miracle of Channuka epaymar@... wrote: Most of us grew up on the story of the miraculous oil. But was it true? I am told that not only is there no mention of the miracle in the Book of Maccabbees, but there is mention at all of the miracle until the great Rabbinic period! I was told that the Rabbis, as a figurative "poke in the eye" to the, by then despised, Hosmonean dynasty made up the miracle to take the glory of the great military triumphs away from Mattathias' clan and give it to G-d. Does anyone have any historical clarifications? I'm afraid that it's impossible for me to give an empirical proof of an historical event: I wasn't there. But we can consider the relative authenticity of the sources. If the book of Maccabbees doesn't mention the miracle of the oil, it MIGHT mean that it didn't happen, but it might also suggest that the authors (or transcribers and translators) were of a political stream that preferred it not to have happened. To the best of my knowledge, scholars don't know for certain who wrote Maccabbees...or when it was written. The version of the book that we have today is a translation of a translation of an anonymous book. Our version may well be the product of a Roman or early Christian scholar, anxious to contribute his spin on things. For obvious reasons, such redactors might have had an interest in playing down the miraculous nature of the war. So what are the "religious" sources? Probably the oldest existing mention is in the "al hanisim" prayer added to the shemoneh esrai (and found - without exception - in all traditional siddurim). Now that might not please just any skeptic...after all, there's no internal evidence as to when it was actually written. But in that respect, it's certainly not worse than the book of Maccabbees! There it also a comprehensive reference to Channuka and candles in the early Tanaitic work: Megilas Ta'anis. The other "old" source is the Mishna (at the end of the 6th perek of Bava Kama - 62b in the Gemara): The Mishna makes a tangential reference to the legal status of Channuka candles in matters of personal damages. Now the written version of this reference can't be later than the end of the 2nd century (ce - only 300 years after the story of Channuka took place) as that was the date of the writing of the Mishna as a whole. But the truth is that most statements of the Mishna predate their having been written down: the Mishna is actually a collection of older, oral traditions confirmed by multiple sources at the time of Rabbi Yehuda Hanasi. For there to have been a clear reference to Channuka candles by the 2nd century (at the very latest) shows us that by that time, the miracle of the oil was taken for granted in Jewish public life. If there was no miracle, why should they all be lighting candles? So I guess it comes down to weighing the credibility of Chazal (the rabbis of the Mishna and Talmud spanning a period of seven hundred years beginning just around the time of Channuka) against that of an unknown author and unknown translators, transcribers and redactors. Hope this helps, Boruch Clinton From: Shaya Dubin Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 23:59:25 -0500 Subject: Chanukah In TFDV2 2 one writer wrote concerning the miracle of the Chanukah Menorah: I am told that not only is there no mention of the miracle in the Book of Maccabbees, but there is mention at all of the miracle until the great Rabbinic period! While it is true that the miracle of the lamps is mentioned in the Talmud, (Shabbos, 21b), as the reason for the holiday, the festival itself was instituted only a full year after the Beis HaMikdash was rededicated. According to the Bnai Yisas'char, Channukah was established as an eight day celebration one year after the miracle of the lights. A festival requires the annual return of the same kind of spiritual force that resulted in the original miracle that is being comemorated. (Torah sees time as a spiral. As we pass through certain times of the year certain spiritual forces are present. i.e. Pesach could only happen in the spring, plants come forth from the ground, the earth is unshackled from the winter, Jews go forth from Mitzrayim, etc. At the Pesach Seder we read, At this time, in those days. Meaning a very special time which we pass through every spring was the same time of the year when our ancestors experienced their release from slavery). Because prophecy was no longer available for the Sages who instituted Channukah, they wanted to be sure that the miracle of the lights was indeed connected to the time of year and not an isolated miracle. After a year passed the sages sensed that the spiritual effect was still present and designated Channukah as an eight day festival. I was told that the Rabbis, as a figurative "poke in the eye" to the, by then despised, Hosmonean dynasty made up the miracle to take the glory of the great military triumphs away from Mattathias' clan and give it to G-d. I sincerely doubt this. Consider that the sages also fixed our prayers and within them included the "Al HaNisim" prayers which honors the Hasmonians and their battles and the establishing of an eight day festival. It mentions the kindling of the lights but not the miracle of the lights. It does not make sense that the Rabbinic authorities would fabricate a lie to "poke in the eye" at the Hasmonians only to honor them three times a day in prayer and after eating. As for the question as to why Channukah is celebrated 8 days when it seems only natural for the lights to burn the first day and that the miracle was only seven days, there are many excellent explanations. The Pri-Chadash writes: True, the miracle of the oil did not begin until the second day and lasted for only seven days. But the Sages designated the first day of Chanukah as a festival in commemoration of the miraculous military victory over the massive Syrian-Greek legions. (Again, it would seem the suggestion by the above contributer is not likely according to this opinion). The Beis Yosef suggests each morning the Kohanim found that the cups of the Menorah were still full of oil, even after having burned all night. A version of the She'iltos d'R'Achai Gaon, explains that the jug of oil contained less than a one-day supply. If that is correct even the first full night of burning was miraculous. There are several more reasons. An excellent source is the Artscroll book on Channukah. I hope this was helpful. Shaya Dubin From: Kira Sirote Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 18:50:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Hanukah In Torah-Forum V2 2 epaymar wrote: Most of us grew up on the story of the miraculous oil. But was it true? I am told that not only is there no mention of the miracle in the Book of Maccabbees, but there is mention at all of the miracle until the great Rabbinic period! I was told that the Rabbis, as a figurative "poke in the eye" to the, by then despised, Hosmonean dynasty made up the miracle to take the glory of the great military triumphs away from Mattathias' clan and give it to G-d. Does anyone have any historical clarifications? Whoever told you that would have a hard time explaining the text of the prayer we add to the Amida and to Grace after meals, which extols the military triumph (attributed to G-d, the way all military triumphs are, but praising the agents of the miracle as well) and makes no mention of the miracle of oil. (Source: any siddur) The contrast between that and the lighting of the candles is a topic of discussion, not quite as fruitful as the one Micha mentioned, but juicy nonetheless. As for the rest, I know only that Chanuka is mentioned in the Mishna only once (regarding a spark that burns down a silo of straw, sorry I don't remember where). And that this is yet another source of the many questions to discuss on Chanuka. ----Kira From: ... Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:41:19 +0200 Subject: Chanukah Rabbi Menken in explaining the origins of Chanukah states: On the other hand, one wonders how "the Rabbis" would pass off this story to one of the most cynical groups known to man (the Jewish people). I don't think anyone claims that the rabbis made up the story of Chanukah. Nevertheless, historians do have serious questions about what actually happened. It is clear from Josephus and the Books of the Macabees that Chanukah from the beginning was associated with fire. The question is what fire? In Megilat Taanit there are several stories brought, one that the Macabees brought eight spears (shipudim) into the Temple and lit fires on top of them, and the known story of the "container" of oil (pach hashemen) that was found and lasted for eight days. Joesphus mentions that there were parades with torches but states that he doesn't know the origin. From Josephus it is clear that the story of the "pach ha-shemen" was not well known in those days. One can debate how much Josephus knew about halakhic Judaism. What is clear is that he made some effort to check into things. Today every child in kindergarten, even non-religious kids in Israel, have heard the story of the oil. If Josephus admitted he didn't know the origin of the connection between Chanukah and light then it was a fact known only in the religious academies and not in the street. As is seen in Megilat Taanit even in rabbinical circles there were various versions as to what happened. It is the Babylonian Talmud that "paskened" according to one version. However, the custom of lighting candles goes back to at least Hillel and Shamai while Chanukah is identified as the holiday of lights from its inception. The only question is why? and there was from early times different interpretations one of which became authoritative. Rav Yitzchak from Kutna even claims that the rabbinical requirement to light candles originated with the destruction of the second Temple when there was no longer a Temple menorah to remind the people of Chanukah. Rabbi Menken further states: The claim that Chanukah originally commemorated a military victory is very problematic: according to Maccabees and Josephus, the date we celebrate Chanukah is hardly appropriate as a military celebration, There are many authorities including the Maharal (on Shabbat (21a) and also in Ner Mitzvah) who insist that the main reason for Chanukah is indeed the military victory. This is clearly seen from the prayer "Al ha-Nissim". The date chosen to celebrate the victory was the date that the altar in the Temple was rededicated. The Maharal explains that the purpose of the miracle of the oil was to demonstrate that this was indeed a victory of the pure against the impure, of the few against the many and was not merely the strength of the Macabean army (see also Meshech Hochmah on Shemot 12:15). As these authorities point out there were many miracles in the Temple and none of these are celebrated by holidays or even special prayers. Thus the only purpose of the miracle was so that the people would understand that God was behind the military victory. Rav Eliyahu Ibn Chaim (Ranach 1500s) also takes it for granted that Chanukah celebrates the military victory. He points out that Hallel is only recited on being saved from death not for seeing a miracle. Also, the Gemara states that women are included in the mitzvah of lighting candles because they were included in the miracle and Rashi states that they were also saved from the Greeks. In the sefer Chemdat Yamim the author again insists that we do not celebrate miracles and that Chaunkah is a thanksgiving holiday for the military salvation. Megillat Taanait states explicitly that Chanukah is 8 days because it took them eight days to renew all the Temple vessels and they celebrated the rededication of the Temple for these eight days. It is also clear from Macabees I (4,54) that original dedication of the Temple lasted for 8 days. These seems to be connected with the 8 day celebration of Hezekiah for rededicating the Temple after it had been defiled by his father. More fascinating is the story in Macabees II (10,9-10) that the 8 day celebration was a remembrance of the Soccot that had to celebrate in the caves and they took their lulav to give praise to the Lord. Rabbi Menken futher points out that the victory at that time was far from complete. Parts of the country - even parts of Jerusalem itself - remained in enemy hands Indeed this demonstrates that the war of the Macabees was not just a war to get the Temple back. They could have stopped after the re-dedication of the altar. At this point the Syrian/Greeks were more than willing to give the Jews back their religious sovereignty. However, the war continued at this point explicity to achieve political freedom and not just religious freedom. From: Yaakov Menken Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 01:44:01 -0500 Subject: Chanukah Rabbi ... remarks seem to indicate great disagreement with my own - but I'm not certain I understand why. To start at the beginning, there is no argument in Jewish sources about the miracle of Chanukah, and the oil which burned for eight days. From: ... It is clear from Josephus and the Books of the Macabees that Chanukah from the beginning was associated with fire. The question is what fire? In Megilat Taanit there are several stories brought, one that the Macabees brought eight spears (shipudim) into the Temple and lit fires on top of them, and the known story of the "container" of oil (pach hashemen) that was found and lasted for eight days. The reader might get the impression that there is some contradiction between these two stories. In fact, as described in Megilas Taanis (chapter 9) the Chashmonaim brought _seven_ shpudim into the Temple, for the Menorah had been stolen. They used these shpudim to form a makeshift Menorah - into which the oil was placed. This is also mentioned in the Babylonian Talmud, Avodah Zara 43a. That oil then burned (miraculously) for eight days, as found in the Babylonian Talmud, Shabbos 21b - and Megilas Taanis. Josephus mentions that there were parades with torches but states that he doesn't know the origin. I didn't find this in Josephus Chapt. 20, in which he describes Judah HaMaccabee's triumphant entry into the Temple. Then again, he doesn't mention the miracle of the oil, either. The prayer "Al HaNissim," which we say in our prayers on Chanukah, also does not mention the oil. Neither, for that matter, does the Seder HaDoros, Order of Generations, a book of Jewish history written within the last several hundred years. On the other hand, I discovered that the miracle _is_ mentioned in Megilas Antiochus, a short document which Rav Saadia Gaon believes was written by the Chashmonaim themselves, and which another of the Gaonim believes was written during the time of the Houses of Hillel and Shammai. And, of course, it is found in the Talmud Shabbos 21b. So is it the logical conclusion that the miracle did not occur? Or that the Seder HaDoros forgot the Talmud?? No - and I'll return to this in a moment. I also said the following: The claim that Chanukah originally commemorated a military victory is very problematic: according to Maccabees and Josephus, the date we celebrate Chanukah is hardly appropriate as a military celebration, There are many authorities including the Maharal (on Shabbat (21a) and also in Ner Mitzvah) who insist that the main reason for Chanukah is indeed the military victory. This is clearly seen from the prayer "Al ha-Nissim". I don't believe ....understood the context of my remarks. His point is well taken, and would be a good critique had we been discussing _which_ miracle we were celebrating: the victory, or the oil. However, what I doubted (above) was that Chanukah could have been a commemoration of a _non_-miraculous military victory. I was responding to the following: I was told that the Rabbis...made up the miracle to take the glory of the great military triumphs away from Mattathias' clan and give it to G-d. The Maharal presents two opinions in Ner Mitzvah. The first is that Chanukah does indeed celebrate the miracle of the oil. He then asks what might seem to us a surprising (if very Jewish) question: because oil burned for eight days, we should make a holiday? The Maharal is pointing out what Josephus and the Seder HaDoros knew as well: in terms of Jewish history, the fact that oil burned for eight days means very little! In terms of our holidays as well - if we made a holiday every time a miracle happened, life really would be one big party. Rather, this opinion in the Maharal says that the miracle of the oil represented something far greater - see there. The second opinion is that the celebration of Chanukah does indeed refer to the victory (this is a "V'Od Yesh Lomar" - a second opinion - so I don't know why ... states that this is "the main reason"). The Maharal states that the Jews were victorious over the Greeks, "but they knew not if this victory was due to the miracle which HaShem had made, and was not from their own strength and power. Therefore the miracle was done for them by way of the lights of the Menorah, in order that they know that all had been a miracle from HaShem..." According to this opinion, we celebrate Chanukah because G-d helped the pure to defeat the impure, for "he desired their service." This seems to be the opinion encapsulated in "Al HaNissim." Did the Maharal believe that the intent of Chanukah was ever to celebrate the great military valor of the Maccabees? Of course not. The Maharal states clearly that the military victory alone would not have justified creation of a (religious) holiday - and the miracle of the oil was a necessary sign that all was from Heaven. Rabbi Menken futher points out that the victory at that time was far from complete. Parts of the country - even parts of Jerusalem itself - remained in enemy hands Indeed this demonstrates that the war of the Macabees was not just a war to get the Temple back. They could have stopped after the re-dedication of the altar. At this point the Syrian/Greeks were more than willing to give the Jews back their religious sovereignty. However, the war continued at this point explicity to achieve political freedom and not just religious freedom. Absolutely! And as I suggested, this demonstrates that the military victory of the Maccabees was _not_ the cause of Chanukah. As we see, there is no commemoration of the final end of the war, and the restoration of political freedom. When the Jews saw the Hand of G-d - "Al HaNissim... the impure into the hands of the pure" - _that_ was cause for a holiday. Yaakov Menken Chanukah is a Yom Tov that celebrates the victories of the Hasmoneans over their Hellenistic persecutors. This celebration of victory clearly has philosophical implications beyond the simple military victory. Jews had many military victories but there are only two that have become universally "canonized" in Jewish tradition Purim and Chanukah. Purim was a miracle clouded in normal physical activity but codified by prophecy in scripture. Chanukah, on the other hand, followed the close of prophecy yet celebrates the clearly metaphysical phenomenon of the Temple oil burning for eight days instead of one. Both the reading of the sacred, prophetically ordained Megillah and the lighting of the menorah represent pirsumei nisa (public proclamation of the miracle). Greek, philosophy ostensibly brought enlightenment, art, culture, philosophy, western democracy and scientific rationalism to the world. We know better. Our sages metaphorically denounced Greek Hellenism as the ultimate paradigm of darkness; at least for we Jews. It was the Jewish Hellenists of that time that inflamed the authorities to crack down in a way never seen before in the usually tolerant atmosphere of Hellenist society. Historians are still amazed at how out of character this persecution was. But Mattathias, that ancient Jew, that old world rabbi with narrow ideas would not tolerate any bit of this. We Jews have a high tolerance level for non Jewish persecutions, crusades, pogroms and inquisitions. We have no tolerance for Jewishly invoked destruction and misrepresentation of our beliefs. It was not until Jews themselves took an active role in oppressing and promoting the corruption of Judaism that Mattathias arose. It is most fitting that it was in this rationalist setting that a public miracle occurred. There had always been a miracle associated with the Temple menorah. The ner ma'aravi, the western "candle," on many occasions burned longer than scientifically possible. This though was hidden from the masses inside the heichal (the inner Temple building where the candelabra normally stood). After the victory of the Maccabees, though, the menorah was set up temporarily "bichatzros kadshecha" (in the Temple courtyard [azara] where the outer altar was located). It was here where the Chanukah miracle happened for all to see. It was also most fitting that it was a tradition handed down orally through Rabbinic tradition until the oral law (torah she'bial peh) was formally written down. A recent poster made the following statement in response to a posting by Rabbi Menken. I don't think anyone claims that the rabbis made up the story of Chanukah. Nevertheless, historians do have serious questions about what actually happened. I have no intention to debate the supposed opinions of unnamed historians. Even among secular thinkers Lo ra'inu aino raya (not having seen something can not prove that it is not there). How many centuries did it take presumptuous historians before they believed in the "mythical" city of Troy? Nor need I respond to diyukim (inferred deductions) in Josephus, a Sadducee who wrote a history for Roman consumption. Rabbi Menken chose to take that road and certainly made it clear that there is no, nor have there ever been any, question in traditional Judaism about the rectitude of the account in the Talmud from day one. I prefer, rather to deal with the inconsistent acceptance of the Rabbinic account with the immediate questioning of its truthfulness!? As the Prophet Elijah questions in King I 18:21, "Ad mahsy atem poschim al shtei hasi'ipim, im Hashem Ha'elokim lichu acharav v'im habal lichu acharav". How long will you vacillate (hop) between two ideas? If Hashem is the A-mighty go after him and if the Baal go after him. We, believing Jews do not need historians to validate our beliefs. Historians question the accuracy of scripture. Our sanctified ancestors are "mythical" personalities to them. They do not believe (yet) in the stories about Joshua. So what? Our scripture and sages need not be defended for their honesty and integrity. It is simply demeaning to defend the moral virtue of our most revered, angelic predecessors who mipihem any choh'yim (due to whose merits and activities we live today). It cheapens their nobility and our beliefs to give the slightest credence to this irreverence Our sages in Shabbos 21B pose the question "My Chanukah"? Why was the festival of Chanukah established? Not why do we light candles but why do we celebrate with hallel and thanksgiving. Why are these days celebrated at all? The answer given is the miracle of the oil, period. (Eight days of Sukkos? You have to be kidding. Is a reasonable person supposed to be impressed with these intellectual acrobatics? I suppose to some miracles are not only a last resort, they are never an answer.) Everything else is commentary. As Rabbi Menken concluded... When the Jews saw the Hand of G-d - "Al HaNissim... the impure into the hands of the pure" - _that_ was cause for a holiday. The miraculous war of many in the hands of the few and the zadim, the Jewish non-believers, in the hands of the believers is all connected to this singular publicly well known revelation. The sages in Rosh HaShanah 18b question why Chanukah was not abrogated along with the other holidays of the second Temple era that were repealed when the Temple was destroyed. The Gemara answers shani Chanukah d'mifrisam nisa - Chanukah was different because it was so well known to all the Jews because of the commandments associated to it and the Jews themselves ascribed to it biblical like sanctity. It was, therefore inappropriate to abolish it. If I sound, possibly, a little strident I do not mean to be. My intention is to be emphatic. Emphatic about the eminence of our authorities. Emphatic about the truth of Chanukah. Emphatic about the need of rational, talmudic Torah (light) to supersede irrational, secular, Hellenist thinking (darkness). Chanukah and its miracle have, thank G-d, withstood the onslaught of the Roman destruction of the Temple. It is prophetically alluded to in the Torah itself (see Ramban [Nachmanides] Numbers 8:2). Chanukah will trumpet on its own the famous, clarion call of Mattathias, "mi Lashem aily" - whomever is to the L-rd follow me. Yitzchok D. Frankel In Torah Forum Vol.2 No. 21 Israel Rosenfeld writes as an aside to my posting on Chanukah: But I'd like to quote the Taamei Haminhagim on Chanuka (the first seif) who quotes the Rokeach: In Parshas Emor, the subject of oil and the Menora follow Succos (hekesh) to tell us that the oil and Menora of Chanuka are also to be lit eight days. Rabbi Menkin adds: In the case of Chanukah, which is of Rabbinic origin, the intent is that this is a _hint_ (remez) to the length of the holiday - not the actual reason why the Rabbis made it so. -- I agree entirely with the commentary added by Israel Rosenfeld. The point was just tangential to my original posting. This was clarified by Rabbi Menkin's addition. I appreciate, though, this opportunity to refine this subject. I have had some private correspondence with others that have made the same point and I see that there is some confusion about my exact intent. I did not intend to deny that there is a relationship between Yomim Tovim. Purim is one day and so is Shavuos. They are both related to the acceptance of Torah. That, though, is not why Purim was established as a Yom Tov. Our sages have taught that the 25 of Kislev was set aside from biblical times for this particular occurrence since this was the day that the sanctuary of the desert was really completed. (It was not officially constructed and sanctified until the first of Nissan, over three months later.) That, though, is not why Chanuka was established as a Yom Tov. Nor was Chanukah established to make Aaron the brother of Moses feel better; yet it did. (See Nachmanides Numbers 8:2) Much has been written over the centuries about the hidden and not so hidden aspects of Chanuka. It is not so difficult to see a relationship between two eight day holidays. All of this is true. What I found to be ludicrous to the extreme is the revisionist approach to Judaism. An approach that will be willing to see the most far fetched, totally illogical reasons for a Jewish holiday. This, in order not to be, heaven forbid, accused of the modern day sin of believing that a nes (a miracle) really happened. Unfortunately, we, on Long Island, are treated to this type of "big lie" therapy every year around Chanuka time by our local Jewish weeklies. This is just another example of how the truth becomes twisted. They teach children around here that (of course) the miracle is really a fable. The holiday was instituted to make up for the missed Sukkos holiday during one year of the Hashmonean wars. It would be like saying that the reason behind Thanksgiving is that one year it did not snow and the children did not get their "snow day." The Congress (having nothing better to do, of course) passed a law making a snow day holiday, "Thanksgiving." I could go on with this absurd fantasy but I am sure that you get my point. It was to this senseless argument that I was referring in my communication. Yitzchok D. Frankel In my original posting I had no intention to discuss the Sukkos issues being raised now. Our scripture and sages need not be defended for their honesty and integrity. It is simply demeaning to defend the moral virtue of our most revered, angelic predecessors, she'mipihem anu choh'yim (due to whose merits and activities we live today). It cheapens their nobility and our beliefs to give the slightest credence to these "challenges". My concern is that any discussion automatically gives these ideas some form of credibility; credibility that is not justified. It is only because of Eric Simon's sincere request for clarification that I depart from my original guidelines. He asked: Can someone enlighten us about what it says in Maccabees about this? The following is the original posting that you very likely were referring to. More fascinating is the story in Maccabees II (10,9-10) that the 8 day celebration was a remembrance of the Soccot that had to celebrate in the caves and they took their lulav to give praise to the Lord. In fact, the translation as I have it in "The Apocrypha" (an American Translation by Edgar J. Goodspeed published be Vintage Books 1938, 1959) is quite different. What was being referred to was the following from Maccabees II Chapter 10: 5- And it came about that on the very same day on which the sanctuary had been profaned by aliens, the purification of the sanctuary took place, that is, on the twenty fifth day of the same month, which was Chislev. 6- And they celebrated it for eight days with gladness, like the Camping Out festival, and recalled how, a little while before, during the Camping Out festival they had been wandering in the mountains and caverns like wild animals. 7- So carrying wands wreathed with leaves and beautiful branches and palm leaves too they offered hymns of praise to him who had brought to pass the purifying of his own place. 8- And they passed a public ordinance and decree that the whole Jewish nation should observe these days every year. All one has to do now is interpret that the "Camping Out" festival is Sukkos and that the "wands" are lulovim and voilà one has a revisionist theology. The following questions must be asked. What is this book of Maccabees and where does it come from? What gave it such authority? The books come from the Apocrypha and what we have is a translation from the Greek. It was always connected to and considered part of the New Testament as is carefully documented in the preface of the translation and in Encyclopedia Judaica. "But they were part of the Bible of the early church, for it used the Greek version of the Jewish Bible, which we call the Septuagint, and these books were all in that version" (page vii). These books have been totally ignored by Jewish sources for two and a quarter millennia and have been in the possession of the Greek and Roman churches! Is this the authoritative "historical" source that we worry about? It clearly carries a Hellenist/ Sadducee stamp. The introduction of the book reads "II Maccabees is not a continuation of I Maccabees, but a parallel account, covering the years 175-160 BCE. Its author describes it as an abridgment of a five book work by Jason of Cyrene which he condensed with the aim of making the material more attractive and useful (2:24) It is neither." Jason! Which Hashmonean from the Pharisee camp would have had such a name? It has already been tampered with by virtue of its being an abridgment of some other works. Its parallel accounts also differ from Maccabees I, so will the real story please stand up. Even if you accept the entire story as absolute truth it still requires a leap of faith to identify the Camping Out holiday with Sukkos. In Maccabees II Chapter 1 you find: 8- And we besought the L-rd, and we were heard, and we offered sacrifice and the meal offering, and we lighted the lamps, and set out the Presentation loaves. 9- And you must keep the Camping Out festival in the month of Chislev. ...10-17...18- As we are about to celebrate the purification of the temple, on the twenty fifth day of the month of Chislev, we think it necessary to inform you, so that you too may observe the Camping Out festival and kindling of fire, when Nehemiah, who built the temple and the altar, offered sacrifices. The book goes on to describe a miracle from the early second temple era somehow connected to Nehemiah. The supposed Camping Out festival, even if it ever existed, was in Kislev not Tishrei! The author was connecting to some festival celebrated because of the miraculous finding of water that turned into fire at the beginning of the second temple. The "wands wreathed with leaves and beautiful branches and palm leaves" do not sound like lulovim to me either. This leap of faith is, in all honesty, reminiscent, to me, of Christian attempts at interpretation; grabbing at straws (in this case palm leaves). I have no idea what is really meant by the Camping Out festival since there is no way for me to verify the translations. Suffice it to say that one of the commentaries on Megillas Ta'anis explains the meaning of Chanukah as "they camped on the twenty fifth" (from vayachanu vayisa'u). Yitzchok D. Frankel
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